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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  October 23, 2009 6:00am-9:00am EDT

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>> i think it's pretty safe to say that the vice president was for seven years not focused on afghanistan. what vice president cheney calls dithering, president obama calls his solemn responsibility to the men and women in uniform and to the american public.
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i think we've all seen what happens when somebody doesn't take that responsibility seriously. >> i think that's fair. >> wait a second. you think it's fair? >> i do. you have the white house press secretary saying "i think it's pretty safe to say that the vice president was for seven years not focused on afghanistan." >> i think if the former vice president -- >> that's just a lie. >> i think if the former vice president chooses to speak out at these speeches but never answer questions -- >> i hate to stop you here. do you believe this? i think it's pretty safe to say that the vice president was for seven years not focused on afghanistan. that's just not true. >> compared to if you parallel it with the way the word dithering was used, yes. >> you're saying then that somebody out of office, the vice president out of office, has to be as careful with his words than a person who is the spokesperson for the white house
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and of course robert doesn't go out there saying things off the top of his head. he's directed to do this because if you criticize this white house and we're seeing this, they go after you like they're in a chicago street aldermens fight. this is all chicago politics. >> i don't see robert gibbs waving his arms. >> he said i think it's pretty safe to say the vice president was for seven years not focused on afghanistan. do you think cheney was not focused on afghanistan for seven years? >> i think if there was one thing dick cheney was focused on was policies of the bush administration. you may disagree with what he was doing but it's not fair to say he won't focused. this is the usual back and forth between one administration and the other. >> couldn't you argue that we would have been much farther along by now perhaps if it was
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carried out more effectively and anyone is going to criticize you would think -- >> take a battlefield as it is in front of you, i dare say if barack obama was president of the united states in april of 2004 we're starting to look like he was going to lead a full scale attack, you would focus on iraq. if in 2006 after the golden mosque exploded, i think it's safe to that president obama would have focused on security inside of iraq. you focus on what you focus on. of course they say he wasn't paying attention for seven years which is just a stupid thing to say. i like all of the guys at the white house. >> dithering was a stupid thing to say. >> i agree with that. >> we're equal. >> that's the problem. now we're equal. that sounds so childish when you say now we're equal. >> you're not letting me actually talk. >> we're talking about the white house here.
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it's one thing if -- like for instance al gore. went out to san francisco in 2002 and accused george bush and his people of being brown shirts and said some horrible things as a former vice president about george w. bush. horrible. you can look at the quotes. i think that was back in his beer days. what did george w. bush? did he go al gore hated america for seven years. no. he just remained quiet. let him have his say. >> also remember after 9/11 what did we do? we went into afghanistan and blew away the taliban and al qaeda and basically overthrew the government of afghanistan. that was the initial focus of our efforts after 9/11. that was the focus but then once we got into iraq, not unreasonably, you are focus did shift to iraq and there was less attention paid to afghanistan because iraq was the major
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battlefield. >> you can have that debate but for robert gibbs to say that -- let me get the exact quote so you don't think i'm stirring anything up here. i think it's pretty safe to say that the vice president was for seven years not focused on afghanistan. and then accused him of "not taking that responsibility seriously." savannah, we're seeing a narrative begin to take shape in the white house. this is a white house that plays as tough and rough conservatives would say dirty, as any white house. you had lamar alexander, a moderate, go on the senate floor accusing them of using tactics talking about an enemy list. i understand they had the pay czar up in one of these pools where everybody gets a shot at the pay czar and excluded fox news and other members of the press corps says fox news has to
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be a part of it. >> i don't know the details because i was on my way up here as to what happened. there was a pen and pad briefing which any reporter can go to but it's not on camera but on the record and i believe they offered some network interviews. i'm not in a position to say what happened there. >> there are reports out this morning that they're continuing this with fox and saying everybody can get him except for fox news who pays into that pool and the rest of the white house press core said no. >> the larger issue here is this is a white house that's in campaign mode. you can debate whether or not that's a good thing. i think their view right now is let's fight back hard. that's a campaign mentality. you get attacked, you attack right back. one can imagine a different response to the cheney comments from robert gibbs. one can imagine gibbs saying something like, you know what, the vice president, he served.
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he has his right to speak. his service speaks for itself. let's leave it alone. let me tell you what the president is doing. this is what we want to get the strategy right. we'll take as much time -- i don't know. instead now we have a food fight, don't we? >> we do. the point that i've made here before is former vice presidents like former vice president al gore can engage in a food fight more readily if he's a former vice president as with dick cheney when you're in the white house there's some of us that believe a white house should hold themselves to a higher standard than the standard that most americans place on ex-white house officials. >> i think that didn't help the bush administration. they pretended that people didn't exist and it was their way or the highway. they're engaging in the conversation saying we don't agree with views on fox news and we don't agree what the former vice president said and in fact we dare to disagree and here's
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why. we do have other issues to get to this morning. >> if you like the rahm emanuel style of politics, which it sounds like you do, this is your kind of white house. this is what i was concerned about back in december when they appointed rahm emanuel. it's street fighting. this is after all a white house -- james carvele admitted to us last week at the 92nd street y, they were conducting push polls before barack obama was sworn into office and going along and carvele on behalf of the white house was trying to find the republican who would be the best target to attack turn into a straw man, beat up, kick in the face every day. and they found -- hold on one second. you know where this story ends. so even before he's sworn in, they pick rush limbaugh saying it would be great for us to demonize limbaugh. this is in december. they do that. then they attack -- who's next? jim cramer and then cnbc. it goes on and on in the way
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former white houses didn't do. >> fox didn't request an interview and ended up bringing major out of the briefing asking if he wanted to come over. five requests from nbc actually. that's what treasury official said. in nbc's defense, we have msnbc, cnbc, nbc so -- >> nbc is getting a lot of access with the president one-on-one but fox isn't. i guess msnbc gets that access with prime time anchors because they're straight news down the middle. they're not opinion like fox. what else are we looking at today? >> i would like to say -- >> that was sarcasm by the way. >> a cheap shot. we'll talk about it more. a little bit later coming up. the president is also talking about executive pay. the administration of course
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slashing executive pay at seven firms. we reported this first yesterday. the firms that took government rescue funds and they haven't paid them back yet. it's sort of an unprecedented attempt to curb risk taking at the same companies that nearly crippled the u.s. economy from banks to automakers to the insurance giant aig. >> i've always believed that our system of free enterprise works best when it rewards hard work. this is america. we don't despairage wealth. we believe in success. it offends our values when executives of big financial firms, firms that are struggling, pay themselves huge bonuses as they continue to rely on taxpayer assistance to stay afloat. >> yesterday i said if we taxpayers bail these people out, we have a right to tell them what they pay their people. then i understand bernanke is talking about expanding this out to a lot more bankers.
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people that never even got a bailout. we don't want our federal government telling people that aren't getting bailout dollars how much money they can make, do we? >> that's going down a very dangerous path if they do that. i actually am worried about this because these are firms that need good management and they'll lose good management as a result of that. a lot have left and more will leave. this is exactly -- >> how do we expand from you took our government money so we can tell you which you pay people which agree with to we're going to tell everyone in the banking sector what you can pay. that's crazy. >> it's absolutely crazy. it will be counterproductive. it's not the role of government in my judgment. >> we need these temperatures to act accordingly and they can't seem to find a way to do it themselves. when we're paying to bail them out -- across the board, that's a bigger issue. >> that's what we're saying. >> these moves are okay. >> we have a right to do this
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for these seven companies. to do this across the whole range of the financial world, i think it's crazy. it will be counterproductive. if you want to put an overall compensation package for a firm, say you are entitled to give x dollars but then them allocate it to their best people. >> i would say thank these big firms that basically blew off the fact that we bailed them out and continued to live lavishly. thank them for this overall regulation if it happens. thank them. >> you punish the people who act badly. to suggest that a professor, a guy who has lived on a college campus his entire adult life, our bureaucrats, our politicians who have never run a company before let alone a bank before, that they're going set -- i want to be clear here -- the pay scales for banks that didn't take federal money? that's dangerous. it's beyond me. >> we've got a couple great stories coming up. this northwest flight -- i think
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they were asleep. i don't know. could they really have been talking policy. i don't think so. >> airline policy? really? >> i have a bridge to sell you. >> we'll find out more. >> you need to tell the story that people think they were asleep and others said they were talking aviation policy and that's how they missed minneapolis by an hour and a half. speaking of health care, we'll talk about the public option and if it's back on the table and if chuck todd is going to do it. first -- >> he's going to do it. >> first, a check on the weather with bill karins. >> airline policy would put anyone to sleep if they're talking about it. let's talk about what we're dealing with with a big storm in the middle of the country. tornadoes in louisiana. rain through chicago and minneapolis is the worst of it. if we look at the storm itself, if you're heading out to the airport, chicago possible delays. indianapolis, detroit, cleveland, also in columbus is
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where the storm will be centered. in the east today is not like yesterday. it's about 20 degrees cooler. we're back to the cool weather. bring the jackets back out and gloves in many areas. it's going to be a cool, raw day in new england. that will continue as we go into saturday. the rest of the country, dallas, cool. all of the way back to the west coast. no problems. everyone wonders about the weekend storm. that slides east to the mid-atlantic up through new england. the rest of the country looks fine. for any of you baseball fans, heavy rain in the area saturday night when game six will be played between the angels and yankees. i would at this point say they would be lucky to get that game in. may have to wait until sunday. >> thanks very much. >> there's a huge show today. we have mort here. that's huge enough. savannah counterbalances that greatness. the mean is higher than usual here. >> if you have it, flaunt it. >> david gregory. the white house fighting.
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we've got you saying horrible things about the former -- this is an exciting show. i'm so excited to be here. >> maybe you'll give me a chance coming up. up next, a political exclusive. are we going to do the fire? >> the ritual burning. >> it's time to leave. >> coming up, a politico exclusive. a developing story. plus, angel in the outfield. the bizarre moment that unfolded during the sixth inning of yesterday's yankees game. you're watching "morning joe." so how long does it take a fresh vegetable
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to start losing essential nutrients? not long. in fact, green beans lose half their vitamin c in a week. that's why green giant freezes them within 8 hours to lock in nutrients. ho ho ho green giant
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>> former vice president dick cheney accused president obama
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of dithering over the strategy for the war in afghanistan. he was dithering. don't confuse that with the word president bush used to use and that was doodling. >> mika, will you stop dithering? >> you're telling me? >> here with politico's morning playbook, mike allen. let's talk about nancy pelosi, shall we? she's been pushing for this -- maybe you want to explain -- robust public option from the house. people don't understand why the word robust is always used. your sources there found out last night she might not have the votes. >> robust is the flavor of public option. that's the toughest one. the bill she unrolls with a big ceremony on the west front of the capitol will have a type of public option but they have thrown three of them out there. liberals said they would get the toughest one. last night she did a real count.
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she doesn't want to put out a vote that doesn't -- a bill that doesn't have 218 certain votes. she came up short. so the bill that's finally released by the house will be voted on by the full house will have a type of public option but it will not be the toughest one. one of the other two that they've thrown out there. >> what about in the senate? i read a quote from mary telling "the new york times" she doesn't want a be public option out there but harry reid is moving far left to a public option. i think it may have to do more with his problems in his own base in nevada than his base in the u.s. senate. >> i think that's right. it would help him at home. for a while, leader reid seemed to act on the thesis he shouldn't put it out because it will hurt him politically. it's one of the biggest surprises over the week or so. everybody saying it was an
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article of faith. no public option in the senate. now they're talking about it. it's possible that they will put it out knowing that later it will be voted down. no one expects it to be included. at a meeting at the white house yesterday with the senate democratic leadership, president obama, we're told, signaled that what he likes is the idea of a public option that has a trigger. that's something that would kick in if insurers don't meet benchmarks set out for them. that's where we're headed. for public plan to begin with but it would be something that would kick in in certain states if insurers don't do what they promise. >> there's an up and down just as we see the story getting into the newspaper that democrats are feeling good about the public option. you look at the polls. opinion polls say more americans support public option than they do a vote count and they come up short. >> they still think it will cost something. mike, before you go, kind of a
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final chapter today with the office of the late senator ted kennedy. >> this is 47 years of history. a single senator. incredible. russell 317 almost a shrine within the capitol. always been a place that people looked at and talked about. it's being packed up. when a senator leaves office, officially their office is open for 60 more days to serve constituents. that time ends sunday. on that day, monday morning it will open as the office of senator paul kirk who was an aide and adviser to senator kennedy. all of the photos, records, are being packed up and going to the jfk presidential library in boston and will later be loaned out. >> mike allen, thank you very much. have a good weekend. now to savannah with sports. >> big moment. sports. i'm going to really stretch this out and milk it. now to sports, something i'm
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totally unqualified to talk about. a late game comeback made things interesting in anaheim last night. >> what happened? >> who will tell us? >> mario. >> forcing game six in the alcs. pick it up in the seventh. angels up 4-0. yankees have bases loaded. he pulls lackey for oliver. then oliver is taken for a ride. a double to the wall. three runs score. what was once a healthy lead for the age sngels is down to just . game tied with a single. picked up pinstripes. rodriguez and matsui come in. yankees score six runs and lead 6-4. everything is knotted up at six.
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a comeback with an rbi single and angels battle back from two runs down to take a 7-6 lead. high drama in the ninth inning. bases loaded. angels live to play another day. they win 7-6. game six is tomorrow night in new york. more baseball news. last week it was reported that the owners of the l.a. dodgers were getting a divorce. yesterday frank cast the first stone. he fired his soon to be ex-wife as the team's ceo. just the first move in what promises to be a bitter dispute over the dodgers ownership. to atlanta, crazy goal to show you from capitals/thrashers game. tipped near the blue line. takes a strange bounce. you got to stop those. to make matters worse, the caps win the game by one goal. that hurts. to football, oakland raiders head coach tom cable will not be
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charged for allegedly punching and breaking the jaw of hanson. cable won't be fired for his altercation which still is not off the hook for coaching one of the worst teams in football. a possible fight brewing over which shoes the son of michael jordan should wear. he's a player for florida who has a contract with adidas. marcus refuses to wear adidas saying he'll only wear air jordans. the school could lose all of that sponsorship money. the university says it's working with adidas in determining how this can all work for everyone involved. back to baseball. during the sixth inning of acls before the yankees rally angels were not the only ones taking a
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dive. they stopped the game for the drunken fan on the waterfall in center field. he decides, okay, i'm already wet. let's go for it. the guy falls backwards into the shallow tide pool. joe is not amused. buddy, smile for your booking photo. if you want to go on a water ride, disneyland is just down the street. that's it for me. you guys have a great weekend. >> talk about divorces in a sports story. >> when i do the sports story we do divorce and other things. >> coming up later, the goatee gamble. he bet on the dodgers and lost and this morning it's time for chucky t. to pay up. shave it or make a donation to charity. he should do both. what do his colleagues think? >> chuck without a goatee is scary. >> this is like trying to think
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of john king without his magic board or what tim russert would have been like without the slate that said ohio, ohio, ohio. >> chuck todd without the goatee where is the reporting? >> you won't see me and wolf blitzer make bets on beards and i don't think jake and chuck ought to do so either. >> speaking of needing a shave. >> exactly. an expert on facial hair. >> absolutely. >> we have arianna huffington coming up. she's talking about these executive pay -- she disagrees with me of course. >> and also the moderator of "meet the press," david gregory. talking about what he has on tap this sunday. >> and mika's must read pages and more preaching. ( music playing )
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live look at philly this morning. welcome back to "morning joe." it's just after 6:30 on the east coast. time for a look at some of today's top stories. today president obama will campaign for a pair of democratic allies. he's touring the research lab in massachusetts before attending a fund-raising event. then it is on to connecticut for another fund-raiser. i think it would be 23 and 24 the number of fundraisers. >> he's raising money. i don't have a problem with that. just because you like to disagree with everything that i agree with, i'm on the
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president's side here so you have to be on john boehner's side. >> i think optics are bad given everything we have going. i hope that they're doing everything at once as they say they are. it's kind of hard. >> you can raise money and still do policies. >> probably can. attorney general eric holder says more than 300 people were arrested across the u.s. -- >> look. that's something they're doing. >> with the mexican drug cartel and they came with a clear policy on marijuana. that was important. massive police sting turned up drugs, weapons and more than $3 million in cash. it's not clear whether any of the cartels leaders were arrested. soupy sales, tv host and slap stick economic known for pie in the face routine died at the age of 83. sales' career stretched more than a half century on stage and tv where celebrities lined up to take one on the chin. >> i came over here to tell you that your check came back.
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>> so did my earache. >> wait a minute. i was trying to take good care of you. you wait just a moment! >> mika does not know who soupy sales is. >> "the washington post." doctors and patients frustrated as supplies of h1n1 vaccine falls short. a crackdown against one of mexico's ruthless drug cartels. >> they're out of control. "the wall street journal" fed hits banks with sweeping pay limits. we'll talk to arianna huffington about this. thousands of firms affected in a plan meant to discourage risky bets as a result small town institutions could end up paying for sins of big players. >> delta air lines posted a $161
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million third quarter loss yesterday despite signs of improvement in business traffic. delta expect to continue cutting flights and jobs next year. when we come back, who are we going to talk to? >> we have nbc's andrea mitchell helping us take a look at this morning's must read opinion pages. >> you're watching "morning joe." ki glaze. it's endless shrimp -- our best value of the year. now at red lobster. on the road right now," proclaims "gq" magazine. did you see that? "the interior positively oozes class," raves "car" magazine. "slick and sensuous," boasts "the washington times."
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>> do you think it's appropriate for the former vice president to accuse the president of the united states of dithering when it comes to the safety of our troops? >> there's so many things that are inappropriate about the bush/cheney administration and their aftermath that i don't think the public receives this message very well. the fact is that the american people overwhelmingly approve of the president deliberating on this issue because they know its consequences are very serious. because the american people support the president's serious
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approach, i think the vice president decided he would be a dissenting view. >> andrea mitchell, yesterday sat down with house speaker nancy pelosi to talk about everything from health care to basketball. let's talk about developments overnight. a lot of confidence among democrats that they can get a robust public option out there. politico reporting this morning nancy counted and didn't have the votes. it looks like we may end up with a bill that doesn't have a public option but may have a trigger. is that what your reports are telling you? >> that's what they're saying. they've been having these lengthy meetings with white house officials into the evening and caucuses as well. a lot of vote counting. i think the difference between harry reid and nancy pelosi is that pelosi usually counts correctly. she's not going to go to the floor until she's got those 218 votes. they'll call it a public option. it might have some kind of
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trigger or opt out. she says she wants to see that it will be fiscally responsible. that's also in the eye of the beholder, joe. you know that. >> no doubt. >> let's look at the must read op- op-eds. this is the chicago way out of "the wall street journal." when barack obama promised to deliver a new kind of politics to washington, most folk didn't picture rahm emanuel with a baseball bat. these days the tap toll would make david mamet proud. what's the gunfire?
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what's the gunfire, andrea? >> taking shows shots at fox news. i did an interview with lamar alexander who had gone to the floor and said the obama white house had to be careful it wasn't getting into the area of an enemies list and then said this white house is tougher than the nixon white house in which he was an aide. we challenged him on that. if you look at how they wire tapped and broke and entered and went after businesses and went after the news media kay graham known as katie graham by john mitchell saying he would put her you know what in a ringer and take those tv stations away from her if she didn't stop publishing on watergate. you can't argue there's a comparison between the obama white house and the nixon white house. that said, they've been pretty tough. they feel that they're striking back against their critics and
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it's fair game in politics. >> i don't see it as a brutal fight. i really think it's made up by the media. >> yes and knno. you'll have tough politics at some moments in this whole situation. one, the administration is clearly in trouble on many fronts and republicans smell blood and they'll go after them and have to respond. it's the nature of american politics. we don't have gentlemen clubs in politics. >> we have boys clubs though. >> i agree. we do have boys clubs. >> you say the media is making this up. do you think i'm making this up? do you think i'm making this up? >> i think that this whole sort of these headlines -- not you -- or, you know, fighting back. they're just talking. they're giving their opinion. >> they're not. i would like to see a parallel -- >> it's different than -- >> i would like to see a
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parallel of another white house that goes after talk radio hosts and cable news hosts. >> you say it's going after. >> this white house is very, very aggressive. i'm saying it again on this -- you remember this. remember when al gore went out and gave speeches and it was back during his beard stage and he was screaming at the top of his lungs in a san francisco event talking about george bush's brown shirts. i can't remember all of the quotes. i promise if you google al gore's attacks on george w. bush, they were a lot harsher or as harsh as dick cheney. >> he went under ground for a while. if you recall, he took himself off the stage. >> he's still former vice president attacking the sitting administration. the question here is what's the best move for the sitting administration? >> probably to ignore it. i think what they saw is that they thought that dick cheney's
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unpopularity in our june poll at 26, 27 or 28% favorable so they were, i think, believing that going after him or responding to him i should say was a good thing for them and that it was good politics. >> anybody think it's interesting here that on the one hand you have a narrative that they are cracking skulls and they're so nasty and aggressive and at the same time we have this other narrative that was all of the talk on the shows on sunday is he too wimpy? does he dither? it's fascinating that he's being criticized for equal and opposite features of his administration. >> on policy he doesn't like to come down on one side or another. we've learned that over the past nine or ten months. jane harman comes on the show and says tell him to stop flying at 40,000 feet. we don't know what he's on for health care. a remarkable health care debate
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all year and you ask what he wants and we're hearing he may be for a trigger option but we're not really sure. whereas if there's any criticism and you know that we have been saying this from the beginning because it's different from any other white house, robert gibbs will go out there and he'll attack talk show hosts. he'll attack -- >> it's not an attack. >> it is. >> i don't know that it's that different. >> i've seen a lot dirtier. they gave an opinion. gave an opinion and they were asked by the way. i don't see that as an attack. >> i will repeat what i said before. you know this because you heard james carville say it. the white house schemed with carville to come up with push polls in december before he was even in office to try to find a conservative figure they could set up and demonize. that's not just chicago style politics. that's dirty politics. who can we savage once we get
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into the white house. i'm sorry. that's not sitting back and playing like most white houses. >> i don't think they were savaging rush limbaugh. they said he was the leader of the republican party and it was a strategy that worked. >> no, it didn't. the president is upside down with independents. minus nine on independents. poll numbers have dropped. >> look at the state of the republican party? >> that's okay. >> that might be in part because of that strategy. >> okay. >> no? >> no. i don't think so. >> i do think the president's poll numbers have dropped, but i also think they dropped for a reason and that reason primarily is a huge increase in unemployment and no resolution yet of how this economy is going turn around and it's a real factors that determine his popularity. it's not just back and forth but this happens in every arena. if obama comes in on this notion that somehow or other we'll have politics of being nice, it just doesn't work. it's never worked in our system.
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it's not the way we have it particularly with the media being so ever present. >> i think that's the biggest difference. this guy said he would bring us together and bring us change and remember the iowa speech i always talked about. he would be post-partisan. he's as partisan as anybody. you can at least admit that. the white house is. >> i think -- >> are they post-partisan. >> i think they're strategizing in a way that perhaps making it worse for the other side. >> are they post-partisan? >> i don't know. >> you don't know? >> i think they're trying to get a lot done and republicans are doing their best to get in the way of it. maybe they're doing what they need to do. >> you can't say they're being partisan. okay. what else do we have? >> "wall street journal." it's his rebel now. the problem isn't personality it's policies.
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>> andrea, it doesn't seem like republicans can help themselves from being personal with this president. they have a hard time talking about policy. i agree with peggy but they call him names. >> that's my point. if you follow even your book and peggy's column and the advice to the republican party from people who are smart like yourselves, it's focus on the issues. as mort says focus on the economy.
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people are worried about joblessness. the republicans like the kind of sniping that we've seen it's not just the white house that's sniping. it's both sides. it's the velocity. the technological changes have changed the atmosphere with everything that's taken place with this white house and this campaign. >> all right. andrea mitchell, thank you so much. >> we'll have the rest of the pelosi interview and a lot of interesting stuff from pelosi today at 1:00. >> fabulous. up next, were they distracted or asleep? >> they were sleeping. >> as they were flying a plane. . ...and big hearts happy too. because as part of a heart healthy diet,... ...those delicious oats in cheerios can help naturally lower cholesterol. (cheerios spilling) cheerios. how can something so little... you do something so big.
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welcome back to "morning joe." try this one on for size. a commercial jetliner with more than 150 people on board flew right past their destination. >> they kept flying. >> they just kept going. >> and flying. >> and going. >> there are questions whether the crew was distracted or asleep. i have another thought. as nbc's tom costello reports, the plane landed safely but now the ntsb is investigating. >> reporter: it was flight 188 from san diego to minneapolis. an airbus air 320 with 137 passengers on board cruising at 37,000 feet. at 6:56 p.m. central time, air traffic controllers lost radio contact with the cockpit. an hour later the plane flew
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over the minneapolis airport and continued flying for another 150 miles. then at 8:14 p.m. central time, an hour and 20 minutes after losing radio contact, controllers reestablished contact with the crew, which requested permission to turn around and land in minneapolis. upon landing at 9:00 p.m., the crew told the fbi and airport police they had been in a heated conversation about airline policy and lost situational awareness according to the ntsb. investigators will also look into whether the crew fell asleep or were tuned to a wrong radio frequency. veteran pilots say it's possible. >> the autopilot was flying the airplane. that's fine. the auto pilots do a great job. one of the responsibilities of pilots is to keep situational awarenessf awareness. >> delta northwest is conducting its own investigation. the pilots have been relieved from active flying pending the completion of these investigations. former ntsb chairman --
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>> i find it very difficult to believe that two professional airline pilots could be out of radio contact for more than an hour and 20 minutes. the ntsb will be carefully looking at the cockpit voice recorder, the flight data recorder, air traffic control tapes. they'll get to the bottom of what really happened in the cockpit of that flight. >> okay. >> your mind always goes there. i think they're drunk. >> drunk, no. >> you think they were distracted by each other. >> airline policy. >> what are you suggesting? mile-high club here? >> i would never say such a thing. >> that's what you think. >> coming up later, senior adviser to the president valerie jarrett will be with us. up next, lawrence o'donnell is back. >> he's crazy.
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? lack of competition. huge insurance companies driving prices up by keeping competition down. in maine, only two companies control 88% of the market. in missouri, two control 79%. north dakota, one company, 89% in fact, across america 94% of markets are not competitive. we need real competition to lower costs. we need the choice of a public health insurance option.
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if you look at these attacks on people who question the administration, you begin to wonder what the real plan is. and it really does to me look like a chicago style politics. like they're trying to demonize their opponent and do everything they can to make them distasteful. >> who is doing that to what? which side is actually doing it? welcome back. mort is with us. savannah is with us and now at the table, lawrence o'donnell returning for round two with joe. >> come on. >> i'm not allowing it. we'll have a civil conversation, lawrence. he's here.
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you don't need to use your outside voice. >> people e-mail i can't believe you. we're friends. it's like we're at a breakfast table having a good time. they don't see the glint in the eyes -- >> they don't see the love. >> i love crazy larry. >> you two guys flew 150 miles past minneapolis without turning around. >> we were distracted. we were talking airline policy. >> when was the last time your pilots fell asleep in the cockpit for an hour and a half? >> we don't think they were asleep. >> on my way home from here. >> they say they weren't asleep. all right. a lot to get to this morning. >> a lot to get to. talk of the chicago style politics. i want to ask you about that. >> is that what boehner was talking about? what he's right about is it only happens in chicago. that negative stuff, i've never seen it outside of chicago. not washington. >> not arkansas. not texas.
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it doesn't happen. also very interesting, the democrats you started seeing the past couple days saying polls are going our way. we'll get that public option in. it will be a robust public option. we heard while you were sleeping politico did reporting and they came back and sure enough nancy pelosi didn't have the numbers to pass it even in the house and now mary is breaking in the senate saying i'm not going that way. more overreaching? what's going on? >> on shows like this where you try to get the audience engaged, i wonder are they connecting to this? when the person beside me is just on her blackberry the entire time you're talking, i'm starting to think maybe we should go back to the pilots in the cockpit. >> i was trying to think of a different word than robust because i'm tired of it. >> what does it mean to most americans? big. what? >> you go back on your blackberry.
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the question is -- this is what i was thinking last night as i read these articles, harry reid saying we'll get the robust -- i think don't overreach. the world stabilized. don't overreach and set yourself up for failure and the next morning i wake up and sure enough they've done that. >> there is a new need in the democratic party created by cable news and the internet which was not a factor. this network did not exist in 1994 the last time they were doing this. there's a new need to at least verbally serve the left. right up until the last minute when the left might not get what it wants. you see a certain amount of image stuff going on here. i'm fighting for -- i'm fighting for -- because even though i know i'm going to compromise in the end and vote for anything, i don't want to be caught right now as an attack target of the left for not being energetically in favor of this thing today.
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>> harry reid -- >> the thing is, i don't know how much of that is there. some of it is there. >> you have to play to your base. the right plays to fox news and -- >> horrible numbers in nevada. >> is that about him shoring up -- >> the problem with him is in nevada any republican beats him in the polls. his problem is with the other side. i've never seen anything like it. he's in tremendous trouble at home. >> do you think he's going home? >> he's a tremendous campaigner in this state. my bet will be harry reid will figure out who to win nevada. >> the thing i found astounding on health care setting aside any aspect of it, 22% think it will get better. 49% think it will get worse. that's the driving issue here and this is not the focus of the way this administration has been selling health care.
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more importantly -- >> it has not been the focus of the republican opposition. the more the republican opposition gets focused on this and i expect them to on the senate floor it not before, that number is going to be driven up. the 49% who currently think this bill is going to cost them more will go much higher than that if the republicans play the senate floor correctly which is to spend all of their time talking about cost. >> remember when we were at the regan library, lawrence brought up this surtax -- >> 35% that day. later it was 40. >> 40% surtax and you're right. that's the best play for republicans instead of barack obama is from public option land. >> all this talk about public option is nothing compared to the tax piece. this is what nancy pelosi doesn't have an answer to and harry reid doesn't have an
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answer to. they're not as worried about public option. how do you pay for it? the baucus tax in the senate cannot, cannot pass the house. that's $209 billion that cannot pass the house. 180 or so democratic members saying we will not vote for the baucus tax. 40% tax on health plans. >> they pay for it with this 40% tax on health policies and also cuts in medicare advantage. >> just to keep it simple for people, there's a lot of other things the house won't vote for that's in the senate bill. they won't vote for the baucus tax which means they can't pass that bill. what the house has done is they've created three new top tax brackets for you and mort. i am in the 10% bracket. above the current top tax bracket they created three additional top tax brackets. that will not pass. >> the house is going to soak the rich and the senate is going
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to soak everyone else with the 40% tax. >> there's not one vote in the senate for the way to pay for it the press is ignoring this part of the bill. that's what they spend their time on is how do we find a tax that pass both bodies. they do not have it. they're using the public option as a mirage of what the real issue is. >> they lost control over debate on health care. the country was focused on costs. they ignored that. you have everyone coming to the conclusion no matter what it is it will cost us more and that's what the country have worried about. >> we looked it at the macro where the president says it won't take the deficit up a dime which i thought was a great line because you play to independents concerned about the deficit but taking it to the microthoug tho we're talking about you and me and everyone else and that's the big question. willvy to pay more for my health
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insurance if this bill passes and according to these polls most americans think so. >> according to lawrence you will as well. this surcharge tax, whatever it is -- >> no one has a problem with the idea when we tax gasoline -- when i worked in the finance committee, we added 5 cents to the gas tax. i'm proud of it. we all admitted to you that gasoline price will go up a nickel. that's true. we can't lie about that. it will. democrats are pretending that we can put a 40% tax -- by the way on top of all current corporate taxation that exists on health insurance, we'll put a 40% tax on it and it won't affect the price of the product at all. >> i was laughing because it's so elementary but i remember when they talked about 40% tax the insurance industry said if you put a 40% tax on us, that's going cause these policies to go up and democrats were outraged. chuck schumer said we'll have to do antitrust investigating.
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you raise taxes 40% on any good, any service, the cost will go up. >> in the house nancy pelosi was trying to morph this into something she can call a windfall profit tax for health insurance companies, i want to ask a guy in business is there any way that you can tax just the windfall profits of a company and in no way affect the price of what that company sells? >> you know, i really love fantasies. i really do. this is better than my fantasy. i have to tell you. nobody believes it. it's almost without any credibility. and the country knows this is not the focus of what they're about. this is why they're losing this debate on health care. >> by the way, cbo which everyone says is the fair arbitor of cost, what we mean is they're the fairest. let me give you one example of how cbo works and how they do an
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estimate on this particular bill. on the baucus tax it's a 40% tax on high cost health care plans. what the cbo assumes is that the $209 billion most of it will not come from the health insurance companies. most of it will come from income tax because listen to this. after they tax your plan by 40% what they expect is your employer will then cut the benefits and cut your health care plan but having done that decide, you know what? i'll have to give you more money in your paycheck because i have cut your health care benefits. you don't have to go to michael moore movies to know that this economy doesn't work that way. if you cut my benefits, you're done. you're not going then increase my income so then i pay increased income taxes. it's really scored as an income tax. that's fantasy. >> a couple other stories we have to get to today. of course the president is clamping down on executive pay. the other store -- we'll talk to
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arianna huffington about that later today and john kerry's increase role on the stage some secretary of state like they say. and the comment that white house is dithering on the issue of afghanistan by john mccain. robert gibbs responded yesterday. here he is. >> it's a curious comment given -- i think it's pretty safe to say that the vice president was for seven years not focused on afghanistan. what vice president cheney calls dithering, president obama calls his solemn responsibility to the men and women in uniform and to the american public. i think we've all seen what happens when somebody doesn't take that responsibility seriously. >> not focused on afghanistan for seven years.
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let's just talk -- let's not debate dick cheney. we've already done that. is that a smart move? we're just talking politically. lawrence o'donnell political analysis, do you like this going after cheney, going after fox news, going after limbaugh, going after other people or do you believe it is shooting down? >> this cheney thing has to be addressed. i'm fascinated about it in terms of acting. in acting the most interesting thing to do with an emotion is try to suppress it. it's more interesting watching someone fighting cry than watching them cry. imagine how outraged the white house has to be at what cheney said and gibbs' amazingly muted response to it. it's hard to pick what is the most outrageous thing cheney said since leaving office and finding microphones but this is near the top. >> has any vice president spoken out like dick cheney has? >> when you talk about a war initiated by that vice
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president, a war that's still going on after that vice president left office, no. nothing like it. >> what about al gore? i like al gore. former vice president. people get upset. people say things. there's hard feelings. dick cheney i'm sure doesn't like getting kicked around every day for eight years. but al gore in 2003 i think it was said george bush betrayed america. >> two big things there. it's 2003. it's not 2001. it's not march of 2001. >> it's 2009 now. >> cheney jumped in immediately. the other thing what i just said about this thing about a war. this is an ongoing war. we do not see a sequence of dissension on the runs of wars. even hubert humphrey who was vice president during the vietnam war in johnson administration, he loses to nixon. he loses to nixon. and then he doesn't come out and criticize nixon about how nixon
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is running the lbj war. >> from '98 to 2002 al gore said saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction and actually supported regime change. they came to us in congress and pushed us to pass legislation supporting regime change. >> do you think that my appoint about war is different. when you're the vice president and you leave what you start, to go back and criticize the war prosecution. >> i'm talking politics. i don't like people second-guessing the commander in chief in real time. i think president obama should be given space. i said that yesterday. i'm just talking about is this the best thing politically for the white house to be doing? i think for all of the things that bush got wrong, he ignored a lot of the ground noise and when al gore said he was betraying america, he didn't send his guy out the next day to say oh, yeah? you sucked the past eight years.
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>> i'm sure there's a clip like that. >> the next day? >> hold on. hold on one second, please. all robert gibbs did was answer a question about this. it was a really good answer. you know, if they had done a better job with afghanistan, we won't be in the situation we're in right now and the president wouldn't have difficult choices he has to make. former vice president dick cheney once in a while might want to sit down and do an interview and answer some questions himself instead of going out on speeches and making these blanket statements and then going and hiding in the comfort of his very nice home. come out and talk to us. stop making money and making statements that criticize the white house right now that's dealing with these wars. it's relickoidiculouridiculous. >> he's done interviews. >> really? >> he has done interviews. >> which one? >> and secondly --
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>> fox news. >> oh. >> they're not real news anymore? let's compare them to other net networks. i think it's a problem when you have a vice president talking about dithering. i say to that yesterday even in our back and forth i stated that makes me uncomfortable. >> we find a disagreement while agreeing on the obama approach. >> we agreed on the obama approach. because we're such good friends we figured out how to fight like hell. also on the other front though, i wish the vice president hadn't said that. former vice president. but i also like my white house being above it. >> lucky they didn't get a question about women playing basketball at the white house. lucky she wasn't there prosecuting that case. >> i say that whether republicans are in the white house or democrats are in the white house. rise above it. >> coming up next, moderator of "meet the press" will be with us. david gregory and will chuck todd shave it off or donate to
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charity? i suggest he does both and not be a wussy. and we're excited to have gayle king join us in the studio. >> she loves me. announcer: "it looks like nothing else on the road right now," proclaims "gq" magazine. did you see that? "the interior positively oozes class," raves "car" magazine. "slick and sensuous," boasts "the washington times." the "most striking vw in recent memory," declares-- max: ok, i get already! i think we were in a car commercial. ♪ yeah ♪ yeah. one reason? lubriderm® contains the same nutrients
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welcome back to "morning joe." 18 past the hour. here now the moderator of "meet the press." david, good morning. looks like you have a good show on tap this sunday. we'll talk about that coming up. let's navigate back into this white house versus dick cheney controversy. robert gibbs responded yesterday to the former vice president's accusations that the president is dithering on afghanistan. we don't need to replay it but what is your take on sort of the politics at play here? >> dick cheney has staked
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thought ground. he'll be the critic in chief on the white house on national security matters and he's going to be consistent in that. i think it will be more difficult for the bush administration to make this case about afghanistan. there will be a fight over whether there was some kind of comprehensive plan that the bush team had laid out for the obama team that called for more troops but, look, you know, you got a bipartisan group of people who criticized the bush administration for not providing the resources necessary to get afghanistan right. so that's a reality. now, the obama administration is coming out because the president laid out a plan in march that said we're going big. this is counterinsurgency. this is protect the population. and then he's kind of questioned all of that now and maybe going in a different direction which is leading to this criticism now. >> we've been having a debate
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about whether the white house is more excessive. you were the white house in real time in 2001 through 2008. almost the entire bush administration compare and contrast, is this something new or is it just more of the same and i was talking about -- i'm not knocking al gore. he was angry for a lot of reasons. he had reason to be angry. he said things about george w. bush. brought up brown shirts. said george bush "betrayed the country" i don't bring that up to attack al gore but to compare that to this situation. how did the bush white house respond to that and how did white houses over the last 30 years respond to that criticism? >> i don't think it's new. i think the timing is different. al gore waiting a long period of time before he went after
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president bush. the intense criticism of president bush around the war took some time to build. this was later into his presidency in 2003 and president bush benefited in the area after the period after 9/11 where he was much more popular. it really wasn't until you got into frankly 2004, 2005, when you had more intense criticism of the president over iraq. i think what's different here is that you have vice president cheney almost from day one going after this administration very hard. now, in the vice president's defense, this president as a candidate and then as a president made it very clear they had gun sights set on prior administration and said everything they did was wrong and campaigned against it hard in a personal way and so from that point of view you can understand the vice president wanting to defend their record particularly when you have former president bush who decided i won't get into the business of that. i'll stay out of this.
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dick cheney has a unique role here he could be criticized for. maybe it's not the right thing to do as former vice president. he wants to have this fight on national security. it's something he's always believed in. certainly believed the bush white house will carry on now. >> is that right at the tyime decisions need to be made in afghanistan accusing him of dithering. >> i don't think fairness has anything to do with these debates. >> did it strike you as a fair accusation? >> well, look, i think the question of timing is fair to raise when you have a president who back in march said here's the strategy. we'll go big in the counterinsurgency and puts a commander in there that says i need these troops to get it done and then to say, wait a minute, we'll we think the strategy. you can be criticized for that. i think there's a very rationale debate to be had to say wait a
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minute, we will not do this if you see the outcome of the elections where we have fraud and corruption and we don't have a reliable government to help out here. why should we just pour troops into this. let's change. >> stay right there where you are, david. we have very important guest with us at the white house and let's bring him in right now if we can get the shot. we speak of course -- i'm very honored to have him here. he's at the center of the storm. chuck todd. will you shave off the goatee? >> i just was under an incredible amount of peer pressure. i held it off. i won't be bullied, joe. there are so many people here push, push, push, and there's too many good charities that will benefit -- >> shut up. no way. here's the deal, i will pay -- here's the back story. abc's chief white house correspondent says if dodgers lose, you have to shave your
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goatee. i'll write a check to the charity you're talking about. robert gibbs, you have an instrument with you right now. >> i have the -- i don't know if chuck uses soothing aloe but we have soothing aloe. >> he does. come on, chuck. be a man. >> and a razor. we could have it done by 7:30. >> what do you think, robert? do you think if i agree to pay the thousand bucks to chuck's made-up charity -- >> lawrence is going match it. mort is going to match it. >> no pressure. >> wait a minute. wait a minute. it's either all going or all staying. >> i think it's a compromise position. >> not a good idea. >> just right there on the chin. >> are you dithering? >> one said i could change
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profiles. >> we need to -- this is very important. we need to talk about obviously something much more important right now. robert gibbs, alabama, number one. auburn lost two in a row. >> i was at the game last week. it was 45 degrees and windy and, boy, it got colder as the game went on it seemed. it was not pretty. >> let me ask you something. you said here on dick cheney -- we've been talking about it all morning. you say it's safe to say that the vice president was for seven years not focused on afghanistan. that's not fair, is it? you don't think he was focused on afghanistan for seven years? >> it's not fair. it's probably 7 1/2. >> okay. so you don't think the president was focused on afghanistan, the center of the war on terror, for 7 1/2 years? >> you know, there's plenty of quotes of him saying everything is fine in afghanistan. everything doesn't appear fine in afghanistan. i don't know understand -- i said this yesterday and i'll say it again.
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what the vice president -- what the former vice president thinks is dithering, barack obama believe s is his solemn responsibility to get this strategy write. we know what happens when you don't take that responsibility seriously. the general requested an additional 30,000 troops to afghanistan during the bush administration. a request that sat on dick cheney's desk for months. i don't understand why he's taking a sudden interest in afghanistan in his retirement. >> i would agree actually. i think it was a low blow. i do have a question for you, robert. when do you think you will have a clear strategy on afghanistan? a way forward there? and a sense of what exactly you're going to do with troop numbers? >> i think in the coming weeks. in the next several weeks the president will make a decision and announce that decision and talk to the american people about the interest that we have
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in this region of the world. >> does the president still consider afghanistan a war of necessity? >> we have to make sure that country doesn't allow the taliban there al qaeda a safe haven from which to plan attacks on this country. >> as you hold shaving cream in your left hand, does he consider afghanistan a war of necessity? >> absolutely. >> david gregory is in washington d.c. david, you can talk him about afghanistan or the goatee. take it away. >> i do want to point out if you look at the contrast how clean cut robert gibbs looks this morning compared to our friend chuck. >> you have to have a little sympathy for me. >> i do have a question for robert gibbs on afghanistan. i know the president has not made up his mind about resources but has the president decided whether he would like to commit u.s. forces in afghanistan until
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that country is stable? will he make that commitment? >> that's part of the review that's ongoing. understanding, david, a lot of discussion that's been had this week is on our partner in afghanistan. obviously we're now going to have a runoff election to ensure the legitimacy of the next government for the afghan people and ultimately the legitimacy for the international community but we also have to make progress on governance and corruption whomever is in charge of that country so that as american forces secure the area in afghanistan, that eventually we can transfer control of these areas and the security responsibilities that go along with them to the afghans themselv themselves. they have to be a partner that's able to accept and hold the areas that are ultimately clear. >> you won't say that we'll definitely stay there until it is stable? >> well, i'm not going to get
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ahead of the president's review on this, david. we have important national security interests in afghanistan and pakistan and the president is spending an important amount of time trying to get this right. and not dithering. >> if they ask for more troops to protect for the election, just a quick -- any ask by the afghan government for more protection for the recollection? >> we spent an hour yesterday, the president did, with the ambassador, and there were no additional requests for security forces between now and november 7th to secure for the elections. >> vice president cheney had his own criticism, what do you say to the criticism that says waiting a certain amount of time does put the troops that are in the battlefield right now maybe they just don't know what the next plan is going to be and at that having that indecision out there affects the current battlefield. >> i'll tell you this story, joe. i was in auburn last week as you know. after the game we went out --
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>> did you win or lose? >> we barely lost, does that count? >> wow. >> this is a serious story. >> i can't wait to hear it. >> we were out and two guys came up to me and said that they were recent graduates of west point. one was stationed at ft. benning not far from auburn in columbus, georgia, which is the largest infantry training center in the world and another was in the airborne at ft. bragg and asked me to tell the president that they thanked him to taking the time to get this thing right. >> darn straight. >> those are two men in uniform and i think the president is going to do what he thinks is right and i think the american people will be proud of the review that's going on and decision that will be made. >> i think most americans, most americans want their president to make the right decision and take the time it takes to do that. i'll tell you, i can guarantee you those men that you were talking to, the men and women in
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uniform, and their families who have been through what they've been through over the last eight years, want to make sure they get it right. a serious story. you're right. said while holding shaving cream and a razor. >> it's called "morning joe." >> no other show you can do that. afghanistan and shaving cream. >> we somehow collided chuck goatee's and a dangerous region of the world in one segment. >> just take care of that, robert. if could you get it done, we would appreciate it. >> it's time for change. >> we would like the after shake picture if you don't mind. >> mika, yes, we can. >> do it. >> maybe we can now. >> we'll take half. >> i just felt chills. >> that's a shave of necessity not of choice. >> thank you so much. of course the auburn tigers this weekend. you guys take on lsu, right?
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>> yes, we do. i might miss that game as well. >> thank you so much. david, we're going to be watching you this sunday on "meet the press." who's on? >> we'll do more on executive comp and this war with wall street from the administration. among our guests senator schumer and cornen and on the round table, a special guest. who might that be? "morning joe" himself. >> exciting. i'll grow a goatee for you. >> thank you, david. >> if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." and if it's friday, it's arianna huffington on "morning joe." >> and gayle king. also, obama senior adviser valerie jarrett. announcer: right now,
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it's just after 7:30 on the east coast. today president obama will campaign for a pair of political allies. he'll tour a research lab in massachusetts before attending a fund-raiser event for governor duval patrick. and then a fund-raiser for chris
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dodd. more than 300 people arrested across the u.s. in connection with a drug cartel. a massive police sting spanned 38 cities turning up drugs, weapons and $3 million in cash. >> that's so out of control now. it's not clear whether any of the cartel leaders were arrested. authorities in switzerland say the u.s. government has formally requested the extradition of director roman polanski. >> hollywood will be aflame. >> he's being held in a swiss prison wanted for fleeing from sentencing back in 1977. >> how shocked are you? what in the world are they doing? this guy only drugged a 13 year old and sodomized her. >> on the list of people who have signed in favor of roman polanski, it's stunning who isn't on it. basically it's nobody with a
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daughter. warren beatty didn't sign it. sean penn didn't sign it. jack nicholson didn't sign it. this is an exaggerated notion that hollywood is behind roman. >> warren beatty seems like such a fascinating guy as far as political. watching this political evolution of him. he's not just that lefty that everybody says he is. fascinating seeing him from afar. >> up next -- >> a 13-year-old girl was drugged before she was sodomized and the things that people have signed suggesting as if this is the great fight for liberty of our time. if you have a daughter. >> it's a tiny handful of american filmmakers. six or seven signed it and the rest of european. >> i was just about to say very french thing to do. >> up next, health care. health care vote imminent? republican congressman paul ryan of wisconsin next on "morning joe." and arianna huffington
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straight ahead. ? lack of competition. huge insurance companies driving prices up by keeping competition down. in maine, only two companies control 88% of the market. in missouri, two control 79%. north dakota, one company, 89% in fact, across america 94% of markets are not competitive. we need real competition to lower costs. we need the choice of a public health insurance option.
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welcome back to "morning joe." somewhere inside the white house there is shaving cream. a straight razor. and some english leather for after -- >> my bet is we're more likely to get chuck todd to shave his legs than to shave his chin. >> i agree with you. >> it would be good if he would shave his legs. >> we were talking right before we went to break, these directors. you say most of the hollywood people -- i think this is misrepresented in the media. >> tremendously. >> most of the hollywood directors, the big hollywood people, would not sign this thing because most of them have kids, daughters. and you wanted to sign it -- >> i was thinking about signing it to get a promotion in show business and be up there on the
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list with important directors. even with that kind of i want to be on the list feeling that exists in the business, nobody signed it. if you study if, you will find no more than six american names that you recognize. >> i want to say i was on a show with someone who said they signed that list. >> i want to say i ignored something who was on that list while on the blackberry. >> i want to go to capitol hill to talk to ranking member of the house budget committee and another man who has not signed the free roman polanski -- >> he's thinking about it though. >> you watch. >> take your time, congressman. >> the day after the election he'll sign the polanski deal. let's bring in house budget committee congressman paul ryan. paul, good to see you here. >> good morning, everybody. >> we understand yesterday democrats said they'll have robust public option. now nancy pelosi says -- tells politico privately she doesn't
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have the votes. where do we end up on this health care bill? >> i heard that. they have two more weeks to try to collect the votes. they slipped the date on the bill coming to the floor to the first week of november. they'll try to intervening time to get votes for the bill. in the senate they had a problem where they wouldn't fix the doc fix scandal. that means they're about $200 billion shy of actually making this bill add up on paper so they've got a funding problem. they'll have to find another tax increase to replace that lost revenue and then they have a vote problem. they'll have to bridge that in the next two weeks. >> lawrence o'donnell said they have a big funding problem. are the democrats in the house talking about just an overall tax increase on wealthier americans? >> yes. that's what they want to pass in the house. they have the votes to pass this income tax increase i think in the house. i don't think that can pass the senate as much as you can not pass the senate tax on health care benefits in the house.
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and so the problem is the big tax increase used to finance the bill in the house can't pass the senate and vice versa so she look for other tax increase they think that can pass both chambers. they have two weeks to do that. not to mention the fact that this still creates a huge deficit because this new entitlement program will create a $1 trillion to $2 trillion liability. what history tells us is we underestimate how much these things cost and underestimate how much we save to pay for the bills. >> congressman, do you guys have some alternative funding mechanism that you would suggest for legislation like this? >> i have an alternative bill. we have an alternative bill which is use tax exclusion. give it back to the individual so we treat everybody the same. we stop discriminating against people in the tax code when they get health insurance. that's a universal benefit -- >> but within the bill that democrats are trying to pass, i
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assume you people will be opposing every form of pay for that they are using in the bill? >> we are opposing creating a new entitlement that involves the nationalization of health care and the government taking over health care. why would we want to come up with a tax indrecrease to pay f legislation we don't support? >> just in a general way, if you were trying to propose various ideas to contain the explosion of health care costs, do republicans have any approach that they're putting forward to the american public on that issue? >> absolutely. a couple things. interstate shopping for medical insurance. medical reform. more transparency on prices and quality and you need to equalize tax treatment of health care and have plans that people have skin in the game so they know what things cost and they care about it. the problem with health inflation is when you buy health care today, you are doing it with someone else's money. you don't care what it costs because someone else pays the bills. we have to fix that and go after health inflation.
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you can do this in a way that makes sure everybody gets insurance. >> thanks a lot, paul. always great talking to you. you know, i hadn't read the republican house bills. he's touched on everything i come to overtime. tort reform. interstate shopping. and then having skin in the game. higher deductibles so you are awarded for living a healthier lifestyle and doing preventive care and letting people know what they're shopping for. competition. >> zero provisions for people who currently do not have health insurance. none. not give one of those people health insurance. >> the thing is, lawrence, i want those people to get health care insurance if we fix the overall system and then have a more narrow focus on those people so we take care of the math first and then look at the moral issue. we've got to get -- you know what? we got to get it because it's not only the right thing to do but economically it makes the most sense.
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right now they get health care but it's expensive because they're going into emergency rooms and hospitals are having to pay for it any way. hundreds of billions of dollars and that gets passed onto all of us any way. it's stupid not to figure out a way to get fixed costs for all americans in health care. >> just to take one issue which drives me nuts which is tort reform. it's not just litigation. it's a defensive medicine that doctors engage in in order to avoid being sued. it's because trial lawyers don't do it. >> up next, were they distracted or even asleep? >> you think they were having sex. we're talking about a jet crew going 150 miles past its destination. we'll be right back. (announcer) in america we don't just dream when we sleep- we dream twenty-four seven. we dream with our sleeves rolled up. our dreams are expressed in digits. they're made of steel.
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you thought they were having sex for an hour and a half? >> no. i think there are a list of things potentially they could have been doing. >> and sex is at the top? >> they could have been drunk. >> are you judging? >> mika is very open minded. >> no. >> sex is on the list. sleeping is on the list. by the way, an hour and 20 minutes of either one of those activities on an airplane, i am impressed with.
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>> reading? >> >> well, san diego to minneapolis, and at the end of the flight they stopped making radio contact for anybody for over an hour. and tom costello has more on the trouble they may be facing this morning. the pilots. >> reporter: how could the flight over shoot its destination by 150 miles. they were in a heated conversation about airline policy and lost track of the radio and the flight is what they said. >> i find it difficult to believe that two professional airline pilots can be out of radio contact for more than an hour and 20 minutes. the ntsb will carefully look at the air-traffic control tapes.
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>> 147 passengers onboard, they were flying to minneapolis. and then controllers in denver and minneapolis were unable to raise the crew. at 8:00 p.m. the plane flew for another 150 miles. after losing radio contact the crew re-established contact and requested to turn around. they admitted they had been arguing and lost awareness. >> we find it an automated environment. and it's a responsibility of the cockpit crew to know what is going on.
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>> so we have now -- the appalachian trail, losing situational awareness and another one -- >> what mika is saying is she doesn't think they call it the cockpit for nothing? >> oh, my god! >> i cannot believe how those values make it into the morning. arriona huffing t g thuffington joining us. we'll be right back.
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i think you need to get your mind out of the gutter. you and lawrence o'donnell. >> they are telling me i need to say this, lax. they are saying to ignore joe and just go. las vegas! >> city of brotherly love, philadelphia. and then going where, savannah? >> washington, d.c. there it is. the house! and here we are in new york. >> okay, that was great. welcome back to "morning joe." i am mika brzezinski, along with joe scarborough. with us on the set, along with
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savannah guthrie, the editor and chief of the "huffington post," and with her serious radio host and "o magazine" editor at large, gayle king. >> i just think these pilots were, quote, debating aviation policy. >> i don't believe that at all, joe. >> mika was having sex. >> i think they were sleeping. sex is a good thing, but i don't want my pilots boinking in the cockpit. >> i think in our sleep-deprived nation, and we are all paying a heavy price for it. do you remember larry summers falling asleep during a meeting with the president. and now the pilots falling
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asleep, it's rampant. >> for them to have a discussion, we will know soon because everything is recorded in the cockpit. >> yes, and the ntsb is investigating this, and this plane failed to make contact for over an hour. they went way past. >> yeah, 150 past. not just a little past. >> yeah, they were terribly distracted is my point. i am saying of the list of things that they could have been doing when they say they were talking about airline policy, i add one more potential. >> let's move from what you just said in the sky -- >> we will let the investigation speak for itself. >> to the continued war of words between dick cheney and the white house. i believe the white house should let things like this go, be it a
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republican or democratic white house, even though i disagree with what the president said, but what do you think, should they fight back, should a white house fight back every time somebody comes at them? >> i think it's so egregious for dick cheney to accuse the white house, and to trivialize it. and this is so offensive to me that he is continuing to talk. then i heard on your show that he is writing a book, and then i say now i get why he has become such a chatty kathy. i don't blame the white house for the way they were responding. >> arriona, for right now, pick your poison, if you ask me would i rather have dick cheney speaking for the republican party, which it's getting dire out there, or some of the talk
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show hosts that have been calling barack obama a racists, i would say dick cheney is like a grown up compared to them. >> well, it's really proven by the fact that only 1 in 5 americans declare themselves a republican. >> yeah, only 20% declare themselves a republican, and the only people stopping them are the conservatives. >> yeah, this is the same 20% that stayed with george bush and dick cheney to the bitter end. so something really interesting is happening in america at the moment, which is there is a coalition across a political spectrum that is broad that agrees with what is happening in wall street is absolutely obsce obscene. >> yeah, and the obama
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administration is slashing executive pay at seven firms that took the bailout money, and these are the firms that have not paid back the money, at least in full. and so this is banks and automakers and even insurance giant aig. here is the president. >> i always believed that our system of free enterprise works best when it rewards hard work. this is america. we don't disparage well or begrudge anybody for doing well, we believe in success. but it offends our values when executives of big financial firms, firms that are struggling continues to pay themselves big bonuses even when they rely on taxpayers to stay afloat. >> it's stunning. it shows the arrogance that is
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still so much at the heart of the system. and it also shows that this administration really has not been tough enough with wall street. it is not just executive compensation. >> yeah, it's early on. larry summers who was there, and i like larry, but he was there in 1999 when all of this started. he and ruben and clinton and all of them started this system which republicans expanded on. >> paul volcker has been marginalized. >> why? >> because as a result it's not just executive compensation. we are allowing them to take the enormous risks, and the system is vulnerable to what is
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happening. >> but, gayle there is still a push back. >> yesterday will go down for a sorry day. the treasury and federal reserve announced wage controls on private businesses. >> a lot of people are concerned, at least in wall street. >> yeah, i hear. the sense of entitlement -- i agree with you about the arrogance. the rules of the game have changed. now that the government is involved in running the businesses and the money has not been paid back, i think they are entitled to some say. when you hear 90% and 70% that's scary and frightening, but it's
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a very difficult ball game now. >> and let's try and sort this out. i think you were watching yesterday when i get very passionate saying if we pay into your money then we can tell you how much you pay your executives. but now you get bernanke talking this will apply to banks that did not run afoul or take money. i think we need to divide that line. >> what the fed is suggest something not pay caps, but increasing regulation, for sure. >> and saying, gayle, if you are a bank, there are certain contacts you cannot enter into with people, and i don't like that. >> if i am helping you, yes. and i was sitting in my home, i agree with them, and i wanted to say joe scarborough said something that i agree with!
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i wanted to call somebody. >> we are on tv right now. don't admit that in public. >> it was just that one little point. >> arriona, do you understand, if i give you money i can tell you what to do? >> i agree with you, but that's the fundamental problem. it's a symbol as well as as a fact. but beyond compensation, the risk is still there, system systemically, it's still there, and the banks are still too big to fail and they have all the implicit guaranteed by the government. we own 34% of citigroup, right? >> right. >> they have 46 lobbyists trying to undermined the public interests. >> they are spending money on lobbyist to get the rules to allow them to continue what they were doing before september 15th that destroyed so many lives.
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i remember going on the ""huffington post,"post," and i surprised at what i saw. too big to fail as gotten bigger. the institutions are bigger than ever. >> what is the answer for the question when people are doing a job well, as the banks who repaid the money, should not the they be compensated in some way, it's just the timing is so bad, and the size of the bonuses that are so scary. >> goldman sachs pea repaid the money, but they still have the counter party money that they got from aig. and they still have the implicit fed guarantee that if anything went wrong they will be bailed out and they have zero percent financing in what they get. this is one of the worse things, and the president tried to
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address it the other day, the banks bailed out in order to lend to small businesses and jump-start the economy are not lending. >> yeah. >> i hear the same thing from small business owners saying i would love to hire people, and i have a great balance street, but, gayle, i just can't get a loan. they are not loaning money. >> that was a surprise to me when president obama said it last week at the dinner. you know, listen, if we give you the money we expect you to lend the money, and the fact that that is not happening, i like the way we chastise them about that. >> gayle, there are a lot of people that cannot pay it back. >> i don't want the president chastising people, i want him to do something about it. i can chastise people and you can chastise people, but when we had the dinner where he said he
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would call on geithner, this place is on fire and we are convening a conference? >> exactly. >> afghanistan is not deserving, but that's deserving. ed fur of "o magazine," you have an incredible article on columbine. >> yeah, the mother of one of the shooters in columbine, it has taken her ten years really to tell her story. and we got it -- the tv producers had been talking to her for over ten years, and she said i don't know if i will be able to do a tv interview, but i wrote the essay and agreed to share it with us. the thing that struck me, she said parents that think you know your children, you really don't know as much as you think you do. love does not keep you safe. this was a kid raised in a
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warming, loving home, and we made all the decisions for our children and still this happened to us. >> her essay is entitled i will never know why. >> she believes -- she describes it to me as a perfect storm of circumstances. the editor that was the genius behind this place had an extensive conversation with her, and she said it was a perfect storm of circumstances that her son, she believes, was undiagnosed to depression and mental illness. i was one of the parents of how can you not know? and those are the parents she said she wanted to reach the most. she said he was prone to suicide. but the journals and tapes? she did not see it until afterwards. when she saw it was a shocking thing to see.
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>> the person that shot and killed the students at virginia tech, and then i saw the tape. i said that kid had as bur gurz. you can tell. we go to support groups, and there are kids that have a more serious condition than my son, and that's the type of thing where if you diagnose it, and you are explaining, you have this, and these are the conditions, and you are not change or different from the other kids, and you work on it. you address, like you said, the condition, and then that's the case. but depression, also, is -- it's so important for parents to see it coming in their children if they don't, tragedy bore up. >> since columbine, i have done
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stories on bipolar disorder in children. >> there was no columbine for me to look to, i had no guidance. we had 2.8 million views since this interview appeared. that's an incredible number for us. and my heart went out to her because she said i am not trying to minimize or excuse what happened, and i live every day with this, it haunts me. when it first happened she wrote letters and reached out to the families, and the therapist said you need to stop doing that because you are traumatizing people, allow them to reach out to you. she is haunted every day. >> gayle king, stay with us. >> i can stay? >> do you want to? >> yes, i would love to. >> if you stay here long enough i may say something else you agree with this morning.
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>> don't go crazy, joe! don't go crazy. a white house senior advisor, valerie jarrett says the health care bill is 90% of the way there. what will it take to clinch the other 10%? we will ask her. we will have the latest on wall street, and plus our political round table. first, bill karins with a quick check on the forecast. >> i like to see you and joe hanging out with all the women this morning. the rain is moving in and out of chicago. right now the heaviest of the rain is starting to move out of there and up towards milwaukee and lansing, michigan. and the worse of the forecast weather, ohio valley, and showers in the southeast, and get ready in the east coast, the warm weather you had, that's gone. the heaviest of the
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if you look at these attacks on people who question the administration, you begin to wonder what the real plan is. it really does, to me, look like a chicago-style politics, like they are trying to demonize their opponents and do
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everything they can to make them distasteful. >> who could we ask about that? i know the perfect person, senior white house advisor, valerie jarrett, great to have you back on the show. >> always delighted to be here. good to be here, everybody. >> good to have you. is there a war of words? what do you make of what john boehner was saying, and what you hear about the white house going on attack? >> i think what we are doing is being clear and straight with the american people. i am in chicago today and just came back from las vegas where i had the honor of addressing arp, and they were having the annual mating out there, and what i have been hearing from seniors and across the country, people are ready for health care reform and ready for it now.
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i think there is chatter and swirl in the air, and our job is to be candid. of course we are interested in hearing suggestions. the president is receptive to new ideas. what we are seeing is we are not going to allow the distortions and rhetoric to get in the way of finally delive ring health care reform for the american people. >> and we heard nancy pelosi did not have the votes for a public option, and the president wants a health care reform bill that does not have a public option, but has a trigger, in case the insurance companies don't start playing. is that a fair description of the president's position? >> no the president has always said he is committed to the public option because he thinks it will create competition and bring down coasts.
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i don't know whether-like allen can count votes or not, and a lot of people said president obama did not have to votes to win but he did. and he is absolutely committed to delivering on health ray form this year. >> so by the white house's count, you have enough to get the public option? >> i don't know, it's too soon to see. i think it's important to understand why, we want to bring down the costs. there are some states such as maine or alabama where you only have a couple insurers, and within the states you see the price going up. what we want to do on behalf of the american people and the taxpayers we want to bring down the costs that is more affordable. >> valerie, something significant happened when out of the committee we passed the antitrust exemption act for the insurance industry, which as you know was completely unwarranted and it's the only industry other
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than baseball that had that antitrust exemption. so would the president sign anything that would put an end to something that he wants to avoid, prevent competition? >> what he said throughout is to take a look at the act that was passed back in 1945. it was so long ago we need to look at why there would be a basis for this exslewson. we are not going to fast-forward through the process and say what he will or won't sign. he will push to get the absolute best bill we can, because we want to have quality health care and have it this year. >> gayle king? >> valerie, when i was listening to senator boehner, and she was talking about chicago-style politics. i am trying to figure out exactly what does that mean? i believe when your record is
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being distorted, you do have to respond. >> yeah, that's exactly right. i am home in chicago. i don't like people taking cracks at my city, and i love this town. i think we are not afraid to be honest and push back, and that's what we will do. again, i will go back to my day yesterday at aarp, and seniors came up to me that wanted to understand what were in the five bills and where we were in the process and would their medicare be protected. they had very serious questions. i think that deserves a very serious response. when you have people talking about death panels and all this kind of stuff, it's intended to scare people. and that's not fair. what we are trying to do is -- it's not an attack and it's nothing other than trying to speak directly to people so they understand what is in the bill, and they understand what is at stake, and they understand what the opportunity is, if we can actually get it past this year. >> lawrence o'donnell.
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>> the president is now in favor of several things that he was a opposed to in the presidential campaign, and he campaigned on the tax piece that it would only involve letting the push tax cut expire on the top income tax bracket, and now he is in favor of the max baucus tax. and on his base in the labor movement which is opposed to it, are you worried about how many campaign promise violation the president is already involved in in getting this legislation through congress? >> you know, it's an interesting question. on the firsthand what we are hearing is people saying we are not listening to the republican parties and their suggestions, and then on the other hand you are saying he is not staying true to his earlier positions in the campaign. the fact is the president has
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been very consistent. what he has said is look, i will listen to good ideas wherever they come from, and he is also prag mattic. he will not perfection be the enemy of the good. during the campaign and at the beginning of the process when he kicked it off with the town halls and he said he wanted to bring down the cost and have affordable coverage or he doesn't want to increase costs. >> what the former vice president out of line saying president obama was diterring over afghanistan, and did the white house -- maybe this is the better question, did the white house consider ignoring his comments? >> the fact of the matter is the issue of what is going to happen in afghanistan is a very serious
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issue. i would think the vice president, having been the former vice president, would know that. it's not something to be light about. what president obama will do is what he said again throughout, he will make the decision prudently and exspa dishiously, and thoughtfully. anytime we talk about putting our men and women in harm's way, he will make an informed decision. what are the afghan people doing to help in the process? what is our overall strategic plan? i don't think it's prudent for the vice president to say he is diterring. he is going to make the right decision, and make it according to his timetable that he believes in appropriate, because right now he is the commander in
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chief. >> i have a question. does it feel frustrating to always seem to have to respond to what the white house believes is misrepresentations? i remember during the campaign that it got so out of control that a website was set up just to address all of the falsehoods that were out there. now it seems to continue. is that frustrating? >> gayle, you know what, it's the nature of politics. it's part of the reason why the president ran because he wants to change all that. what is not frustrating is when we get out and around the country and we talk directly to the wonderful people working so hard in the tough economic climate, and it's their voices we listen to and their voices that make up for all the frustration that you might find in washington. >> gayle, let me answer that question with a question. is it frustrating for you to have to listen to me for three hours a day? >> have i told you i love you today? this is your show. >> valerie jarrett, thank you so
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much. >> thank you. >> thank you, guys. it's great to be on. >> say hello to chicago for us. >> gayle, thank you as well. >> the columbine article sounds absolutely fascinating. a new view of an old tragic story. can't wait to read it. >> thank you. coming up, our political round table. after the break we will get a check on business before the bell, so keep it right here on "morning joe." why does lubriderm® work so well with skin?
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the phillies' pitcher brett myers celebrated with his team, and then had a quiet moment with the woman that he loves. >> with the hope that we can get into the new ballpark, because we thought we could get the fans the very special baseball experience. >> well, they are definitely married. you win the world series, and then you get a kiss. >> she was just repelled. doesn't like to kiss him. >> goodness! i guess not. >> time to get a check on business before the bell, from
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new jersey. >> microsoft just came out with the earnings, and they just released windows 7. and their stock is 7% in the fair market trade. and ben bernanke is taking stage at the boston feds conference. for most of the americans he is the cure of insomnia, but for us in the business world, we will watch it closely today. came up with huge numbers. we are waiting for existing home sales numbers where the $8,000 tax credit should be a huge boost and they will take 5%. and those are the major things we are looking at, bernanke, and microsoft and the existing home sales. joe, i usually, of course, watch
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squauk box, but i was listening to you guys because i wanted to know what you were talking about, and you talked about small businesses not hiring because they cannot get loans. one element of it, too, because i talk to them all the time, the overhang of health care reform and cap and trade, until they see what will be in the horizon in the present, they don't want to do anything until they know what happens. >> that's a great dynamic to put it in that small businesses, not only are they hurting but are on hold until all of this. that could be quite sometime at the rate we are going. thank you so much. up next, sam tanenhaus joins us. keep it right here. have some fun with that truck.
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why is this the right level of pay for these executives? >> if you look at the sheet and balance the citizen anger, and the need for these companies to repay the taxpayer, i think i struck the right balance here. >> back now for the political round stable. editor of the "new york times" and book review, and savannah guthrie and lawrence o'donnell. >> the big question is this a cosmetic change or get to the leaper, underlying structural problem of rewarding risk. we see the president is putting forth a plan there, too. and then the pulitzer prize
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winning reporter will look at this. >> a lot of us agree, if you take our tax dollars, we can tell you what type of compensation to give. the white house and the feds seem to be going beyond that, and they are going to regulate all banks on the pay structure. that's pretty -- >> but they don't want to do salary caps. they don't want to go that far? >> there is no such thing as a private bank in the united states. every single american bank is backed by the federal government. that's their insurance policy, the federal government. so the federal government has a right with fdic to get in there and look at everything they are doing. >> it's like hurricane coverage. if you live on the water in florida as we do, they say you can have hurricane insurance, but you have to do a, b, c and d or we are not giving it to you. >> it reminds you of the old term generations ago, wall street journalism. here is it. the government has to step in and they have to take over.
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that means they will call the shots for a long time. >> lawrence, you have been a catholic for many years. the weekend review has a story on how they are trying to get disgruntled priests in the church, and that means you will have married priests in the church for the first time in centuries. >> i just guessed at that. >> well, a lot of secretly married priest. there is also the notion that this may be the camel's nose under the tent, so to speak. maybe they will embrace marriage for their own priests. >> yeah, that's an argument, and that could be that they are liberalizing and opening up to this. at the same time they are acknowledging the war between
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the anglo church and the catholic church on gay priests and the rest. it's a cultural war. >> the single biggest problem right now is the church cannot afford married priests. they have enough trouble getting to pay the priest and get him health insurance, and imagine you have to get insurance for the priest, and his wife and nine children, because he will not use birth control. >> i have a great love from afar of the catholic church, but if you have marital problems orchid problems, i mean, it always happened being a baptist going to a baptist preacher and i could say i am having the problem at home, what do you do? instead of a guy that has never had kids. >> i recommend a shrink, joe,
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next time, rather than a baptist preacher. >> no, baptist preachers work best. if you are not married and don't have kids, i don't know how you can weigh in on these topics. >> nobody has listened to a catholic priest on marital problems. >> yeah, that's my point. >> everybody is getting their advice from dr. phil now, and nobody is listening to priest. >> i love the catholic church. >> yeah, he is one of the favorite authors here, and dexter has a new book out. >> here is a review -- >> you are right. >> it's called "the fourth star" and it's about how the war within the military ended up determining the iraq policy. it was an old school. amazingly enough as we were getting ready to invade iraq
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they were running exercises after a phantom soviet army. >> are we adjusting now? >> yes, david petraeus, man, he is the guy. >> there have been so many tragedies in the past five or six years in the warfare, but what military leaders have learned over the past five or six years. remarkable, light years ago of where we were a decade ago, and fighting wars of the future? >> yeah, this may be the first time that they actually looked ahead. this was shocking to me, and i would assume after the gulf war in '91, the military more or less readjusted itself, and the point they make is that they pretend vietnam never happened and the next war would be like the cold war, and that's what they wanted so much.
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now, i think they saw on the ground, but what we forget about iraq sometimes, and we look at the number of killed, 4,000 or so and that's not as bad as vietnam. but the total number of casualties, and thanks to the medicine we have now, we can repair people. >> the body armor. >> yeah, we are talking 30,000 people, serious casualties, a huge number. >> savannah, what are you doing today at the white house other than your normal smoke, gossip and -- >> here is the thing. you probably did not notice this, i am not at the white house right now. i am here. >> you are not going to take the train and go to washington. >> yeah, i am headed that way. >> okay, miss smart ass. >> sounds like chicago politics to me, name calling. >> yeah. you have to speak my language. >> yeah, you understand this. >> the president is actually
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leaving the white house today. he is going on another fund-raising tour. >> where is he going? >> for patrick and chris dodd. >> are you following him up there? >> we have somebody going, but it won't be me. you have not heard this either, but willie has a show every day at 5:30, and he is not here today -- >> what, "hardball"? >> it's actually in the morning. and it's right before this show. >> thank you all for a great round table that just fell apart. >> sam, have you started to write your book on buckley yet? >> i am going back to that. what a life. what a life. >> what access you have. >> which buckley? >> william f. >> just want to go clarify. you have an audience out there. >> thank you very much, sam.
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coming up, we know moses shaped western religion. up next, how the bibable figure helped shape the oval office. e. did you see that? "the interior positively oozes class," raves "car" magazine. "slick and sensuous," boasts "the washington times." the "most striking vw in recent memory," declares-- max: ok, i get already! i think we were in a car commercial. ♪ yeah ♪ yeah. d yoyou rinse this morning? if you did, your mouth will thank you. listerine® doesn't just put a spring in your step. it also significantly reduces gingivitis and pquque. say goodbye to germs. ansasay good morning to lisririne®.
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we are in the presence tonight of a lot of moses, and
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the presence today of a lot of giants whose shoulder we stand on. and the previous moses generation took us 90% of the way there, but we still have the 10% in order to cross over to the other side. >> then senator obama back in 2007 comparing moses to american civil rights leaders. according to the next guest, moses' influence on american culture does not end there. here now best-selling author. his new book "america's profit" is really interesting. is there an argument to be made that moses was the founding father of the u.s.? >> well, you had columbus comparing himself to moses, and the pilgrims said not since moses was there a more important journey. on july 4th, 1776, and thomas
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jefferson and franklin and john adams. six weeks later they made the recommendation, moses leading the israelites across the sea. >> is tlnt a freeze of moses and the ten commandments in the supreme court. it has been debated before, was that an endorsement of religion to have moses there, and i think the argument people make is he is not a religious figure, he is a secular figure as the law giver. >> well, there was a film that took the stone commandments around the country and the publicity stunt became the basis of landmark law. the supreme court has six views
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of moses. there are 23 faces, 11 look left and 11 look right and they all look towards moses. and he is the only one looking out. and you just heard obama three weeks after, and george washington credited the revolution to the same god that freed the hebrews, and bush told me personally, president bush, he was inspired to run by moses. >> here is something that you did not know. you make the connection in the book that superman was modeled partly after moses? >> yeah, the two books in cleveland, ohio, just like moses put in the basket, they were both escaping people facing anileation, and superman's original name in krip tonen was call l, and that means swift
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god. >> and wasn't there something that made obama appear to be like moses? >> yeah. >> the book is "america's profit, moses and the american story." thank you so much for coming on the show. up next, savannah, what, if anything, did we learn today? >> how much? >> we'll be right back. (announcer) there are engines... and then there's the twin-turbocharging, 365-horsepower-generating, ecoboost™ engine in the all-new taurus sho from ford. that has the thirst of a v6 with the thrust of a v8.
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you know, sometimes, i can't control the content here. i have 87 kids and a 6-year-old girl that was watching this morning, and watched lawrence o'donnell, and he said mommy, why did that old man just say the word cockpit that way? i had no answer. i am just a dad. it was like 1999 again. >> i can't imagine you ever saying anything inappropriate on the air. >> and this is a solemn vow i make to you, i will never say anything inappropriate on this
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air, because we have a 7-second delay. >> i just learned that cockpit is the eighth word that you cannot say on television, especially on msnbc. >> yeah, yeah. >> phil, good luck today. phil came in, and it's a cockpit fine? >> will you stop it, lawrence! savannah? >> chuck todd as an array of facial hair options, it is not just the goatee, but the mustache look. and it's a sole patch -- >> that is repulsive. >> there it is! >> what did you learn? >> that it's not just superman modeled after moses, but the president is, too. >> is he really? >> uh-huh.


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